[0:00]
yeah
[0:03]
a think about some observations that
[0:06]
I've been having you know your time here
[0:08]
at the park and you know also recognize
[0:11]
all the work that you've been doing um
[0:13]
so you did you've been doing a great job
[0:14]
at the Welcome Center you've also been
[0:16]
doing a great job on the as recently as
[0:19]
the Y had a lost and found drum and you
[0:21]
turned it in follow all the procedures
[0:23]
100% correctly so that's great right and
[0:25]
so thank you um so I want to you
[0:28]
recognize the good stuff um doing uh
[0:31]
here at the park um worked a double
[0:33]
stayed an hour past that to help
[0:34]
somebody yep yep so you're definitely
[0:37]
providing that service you know that um
[0:39]
you know the day-to-day operational
[0:41]
service that we're after with the park
[0:44]
um I care about this place that's good
[0:46]
that's good that's what I mean I think
[0:48]
all of us do right and that's why we're
[0:50]
here we have that shared value and that
[0:53]
shared you know belief of like why we're
[0:55]
here and providing the service for
[0:56]
people so so that's right that's right
[0:58]
on that's good that's I glad to hear
[1:00]
that and that's awesome that that that
[1:02]
you do feel that way because that's the
[1:04]
same way I feel I know that's the same
[1:05]
way Katie feels and that's the same way
[1:07]
all the Rangers feel and all the you
[1:09]
know other volunteers you know like
[1:11]
that's a you know something that we hold
[1:14]
and talk about pretty often you know as
[1:15]
a crew um of you know why we're here and
[1:18]
why we're doing what we're doing you
[1:20]
know so um is there anything you said
[1:23]
you wanted to talk is there anything you
[1:24]
want to talk about before we get before
[1:27]
we um kind of get going
[1:30]
I'd like to hear what you have to say
[1:32]
okay yeah no worries yeah so um so yeah
[1:35]
first off I just wanted like I said
[1:36]
recognize all the efforts um that that
[1:40]
you've been doing and you know I just
[1:42]
some observation I'll start with some
[1:43]
observations and so kind of my role as a
[1:47]
park manager is to I want everybody to
[1:49]
set up for success and some of that at
[1:53]
times is you know providing expectations
[1:56]
for people you know moving forward kind
[1:58]
of you know you're brand new and state
[2:00]
parks you think you hosted for a little
[2:03]
while down ataw tugman right and so
[2:06]
you're still learning the ropes yourself
[2:07]
and getting understand had to navigate a
[2:10]
lot of understanding like you know what
[2:13]
we do when we do it why we do it how we
[2:14]
do it and it can be a lot you know for
[2:16]
people
[2:17]
to um figure a lot of stuff out right
[2:21]
and so hopefully that's where you know I
[2:24]
come in as a manager Kitty comes in as R
[2:25]
supervisor and all the Rangers are there
[2:27]
to provide support and help as well
[2:30]
to all the volunteers that that's really
[2:32]
our role right you guys are part of our
[2:34]
team and part of one big thing of our
[2:37]
team operating principles is being
[2:40]
supportive of each other you know and
[2:43]
and so that can be interpreted in
[2:45]
different ways right you know you know
[2:48]
how supported people are are not you
[2:50]
know and just so you know I've seen some
[2:53]
you know I've seen some correspondents
[2:55]
from you that kind
[2:58]
of leads me to believe that that you
[3:01]
believe that people aren't being
[3:02]
supportive of you um and then you know
[3:06]
also I would say I've been seen some
[3:09]
stuff that may not be supportive of the
[3:11]
crew and kind of what we're doing as
[3:13]
well um so I have a just some talking
[3:16]
points here of things I'd like to
[3:18]
address and um and talk about and just
[3:21]
so we're on the same page you know
[3:23]
you're on the same page as I am and we
[3:25]
have an understanding and a clear
[3:27]
pathway forward for your success as a
[3:29]
volunteer here okay I'm listening as you
[3:31]
come through here you're going to go to
[3:32]
other parks and um you know other Parks
[3:35]
will have um EXA you almost got to
[3:38]
relearn not relearn everything right but
[3:40]
they do things differently at each Park
[3:43]
um and so you know some of that is
[3:45]
having you know patience and
[3:47]
understanding where those processes but
[3:49]
so anyway so um you know we have a lot
[3:52]
of volunteers that come through the park
[3:54]
regularly you know people that have been
[3:56]
returning for 10 to 20 years you know
[3:59]
like literally 20 20 years right and uh
[4:04]
they interact with you know other
[4:05]
volunteers they inter interact with the
[4:09]
staff right and but there's an
[4:12]
observation that I've made in the the
[4:16]
month that you've been here is um and
[4:19]
this is in correspondence coming from
[4:21]
you directly in emails and texts to park
[4:24]
rangers or myself or Katie um is that
[4:29]
you know you've express some
[4:30]
dissatisfaction with multiple members of
[4:33]
the crew I mean myself Katie Logan Leaf
[4:37]
Pat I don't agree with that okay well
[4:39]
yeah so like I said that's just the
[4:42]
observation I've made on the emails that
[4:44]
I've seen from you well I don't agree
[4:46]
with that and that's fine and and you
[4:48]
don't have to agree with it um but I am
[4:52]
communicating what my expectations are
[4:54]
for you as a volunteer here at the park
[4:57]
well I want you to know my petition as
[4:58]
well I have never said anything I've
[5:00]
never had a criticism towards you
[5:02]
towards Leaf um it's just that's not how
[5:05]
I we'll get more into we'll get more
[5:07]
into it uh as we go along here um so
[5:11]
long story short is after you have
[5:13]
arrived it does appear that there you're
[5:15]
having issues with different Park staff
[5:17]
you know it started out with Katie at
[5:18]
the beginning of the month and then I
[5:21]
came and talked to you as a normal
[5:22]
conversation I would with anybody else
[5:24]
and that conversation didn't sit well
[5:26]
with you either I think we rectified
[5:28]
that through email
[5:30]
right but it just there's I've observed
[5:33]
a trend over the month that you've been
[5:35]
here is that when somebody tries to
[5:37]
provide you guidance or feedback um you
[5:41]
take it as that
[5:42]
they're like don't trust you or that
[5:45]
they're um you know don't think that
[5:47]
you're capable of understanding um I
[5:50]
think recently I heard that you had
[5:51]
requested that you know like a certain
[5:54]
park ranger didn't lead an orientation
[5:57]
right and so um one expectation I have I
[6:00]
didn't request that I spoke to um Logan
[6:03]
on the phone and I told him that every
[6:05]
time Patrick and I interacted he was
[6:08]
condescending towards me and he said
[6:09]
that leaf would train me gotcha that was
[6:12]
what Logan said to me I took him at his
[6:15]
word right yeah my understand with that
[6:18]
is that Logan was saying that he would
[6:19]
look into it it wasn't like guarantee
[6:21]
not what happened it was it's not what
[6:23]
happened it's yeah it's it's fine like I
[6:26]
said this isn't an argument so um we're
[6:29]
not we're not doing an argument here so
[6:31]
um long story short is any Ranger at any
[6:34]
time will provide training to any
[6:36]
volunteer here and I and I went to the
[6:38]
training great um that's awesome and
[6:41]
that and that's all we could ask for um
[6:44]
but I would ask that you know with that
[6:46]
being is that like um so in that
[6:49]
instance I saw some feedback directly
[6:51]
from you saying that Patrick was
[6:53]
condescending towards you know the
[6:55]
volunteers and the
[6:56]
orientation and from what I understand
[6:59]
from your words is that um you felt that
[7:03]
with r with Patrick saying that like you
[7:07]
know I'm here to provide support for you
[7:09]
or something of that nature and he you
[7:12]
said he repeated it multiple times in
[7:13]
the conversation over the course of an
[7:15]
hour he kept bringing it out but that
[7:16]
wasn't the main point yeah so but it
[7:19]
seemed like that was a a sign but I
[7:21]
navigate it I navigate you know things I
[7:24]
don't really have an issue with Patrick
[7:25]
he's you know easy to navigate okay um
[7:28]
the problem was was that Logan lied to
[7:30]
me that's a fact well and and just so
[7:33]
you know too um Logan came to me so Leaf
[7:36]
was out sick right the day prior to the
[7:39]
orientation and we we did not know if he
[7:41]
was going to be available to even do an
[7:43]
orientation right okay and so I also
[7:45]
wasn't communicated to me well you're
[7:47]
right and so and I even told Logan is
[7:49]
like regardless is like Patrick was
[7:51]
scheduled for the orientation like he
[7:54]
was scheduled to do the orientation and
[7:56]
so an expectation I have as a park
[7:58]
manager for our volunteers and our staff
[8:01]
is that we got to get along log with
[8:02]
each other and so by Patrick not doing
[8:04]
the orientation that was not an option
[8:06]
so Patrick was doing the
[8:09]
orientation regardless right and so from
[8:13]
my understanding talking about Patrick I
[8:14]
heard nothing in the conversation from
[8:16]
Patrick that
[8:17]
would for me to believe that he was not
[8:22]
supportive of the volunteers and he's
[8:25]
very plain what what I had heard is that
[8:27]
he was offering help that's what I heard
[8:30]
and it sound like what you heard is that
[8:31]
he repeated himself and was insinuating
[8:34]
that you weren't capable of
[8:36]
understanding look I'm not sure what you
[8:38]
want me to say I have already said yeah
[8:41]
no and I told you I navigate him you
[8:44]
know like I do everybody no fair enough
[8:46]
and I Logan is my direct supervisor I
[8:48]
tried to explain to him that every time
[8:50]
Patrick comes to see me he is
[8:52]
condescending towards me this is just
[8:54]
the way it is and I navigate it and I
[8:56]
knew that if I was in a training
[8:57]
environment with him that that put him
[9:00]
in a position of authority over where he
[9:02]
could be even more condescending and I
[9:03]
wanted to avoid that situation and Logan
[9:06]
said that he would deal with it and have
[9:07]
believe trained me and I believed him
[9:09]
gotta so yeah and yeah I so I understand
[9:12]
you have a conflict with Patrick not
[9:14]
really okay I wanted to avoid a
[9:16]
situation I wanted to prevent a
[9:18]
situation right so so it sounds like you
[9:22]
have an understanding of maybe what some
[9:24]
triggers are for you right maybe Patrick
[9:26]
does and you're navigating around those
[9:28]
that's what I just heard you say if
[9:31]
that's
[9:32]
correct
[9:34]
um I mean I don't know that I would call
[9:36]
it a trigger because I do um like I said
[9:40]
I navigate the situation it's just I I
[9:43]
recognize the way he's talking to me and
[9:46]
I don't think that he's conscious of it
[9:48]
I don't think he's he's you know out to
[9:51]
get me or something I just know that the
[9:54]
way he
[9:55]
it's okay fair fair enough yeah so so I
[9:59]
give that and like um but just so I am
[10:03]
being clear on this is that like you
[10:05]
know Patrick is still a ranger and like
[10:08]
he's interacted with lots of always
[10:10]
respectful with him that's good that's
[10:11]
that's great and my hope is that he is
[10:13]
with you and if he's not then please let
[10:14]
me know and we'll work on that but just
[10:17]
so when and I you know I know Patrick
[10:20]
right I worked with him for quite a few
[10:22]
years and other volunteers who work with
[10:23]
Patrick over the years and stuff and so
[10:26]
I when I hear Patrick say this is this
[10:28]
is my perspective when I hear Patrick
[10:30]
say be like I'm here to help or just
[10:32]
give me a call if you need anything when
[10:34]
Patrick says that I take that as like
[10:36]
that's Patrick
[10:37]
genuinely I don't have this not about
[10:39]
that it's really not about that it's
[10:42]
like I mean trying Let me refresh my
[10:44]
memory here the first thing he said was
[10:46]
don't get your hopes up he said that
[10:48]
twice and it was the way he said it
[10:50]
refering like the schedule yeah it was
[10:52]
like I was just asking a question about
[10:54]
the schedule and then he just kept going
[10:56]
on and on and on about it but that's not
[10:57]
even so like a couple days before that
[10:59]
I'm at the Welcome Center I have to do
[11:01]
the um I had to escalate a situation I
[11:04]
called all of you trying to you know
[11:05]
including him and then he came in and
[11:08]
said that he had to leave earlier and
[11:10]
then described that whole call log to me
[11:12]
like I hadn't just done it it's it's
[11:14]
just the way he comes across it's like
[11:18]
he's yeah and and so yeah and like in
[11:21]
that situ just from for me hearing that
[11:23]
right what when and obviously I I can't
[11:28]
like
[11:29]
I can I was just trying to avoid a
[11:31]
situation and I believe understand how
[11:33]
you're feeling or how that comes across
[11:35]
right but when when I hear that to me it
[11:39]
just sounds like Patrick's trying to
[11:41]
he's being Patrick I understand I truly
[11:43]
understand I think he's just trying to
[11:44]
communicate because Patrick loves
[11:46]
communication he likes lots of
[11:47]
communication and and you almost have to
[11:50]
overc communicate with Patrick in
[11:52]
general and so the way I navigate him is
[11:54]
I'll say we're good patri we're good but
[11:57]
he hasn't picked up on that yet like I'm
[11:59]
literally just trying to have a smooth
[12:01]
relationship with everybody gotta and
[12:04]
because Patrick wasn't picking up on it
[12:06]
every single interaction went like that
[12:07]
I was like okay if he trains me that
[12:10]
could go very badly let's try to avoid
[12:12]
that well yeah and and here's and the
[12:14]
other thing too is that I would
[12:15]
encourage people if if you are having
[12:18]
like an issue like that like having a
[12:19]
conversation like we're having I had one
[12:21]
with Logan well Logan's not Patrick
[12:23]
though and and Logan is not so what I
[12:26]
would say is that something would need
[12:27]
to happen with Patrick so like if I'm
[12:29]
have a conversation and I'm hearing this
[12:31]
I I have a thing that says I hear that
[12:33]
Patrick and he is somehow supposed to
[12:36]
know that that means like I'm you're
[12:39]
saying be more direct with them you guys
[12:41]
don't like it when I'm direct you guys
[12:42]
don't like it so what am I supposed to
[12:44]
do no I think it's not it's not what you
[12:46]
say it's how you say it right and so
[12:49]
it's I think typically even with like
[12:52]
rule enforcement in the campground right
[12:54]
is not what we're saying it's how we're
[12:56]
saying it right so if I show up into the
[12:58]
campsite and I say hey shut the [ __ ] up
[13:00]
you know like be quiet it's quiet hour
[13:02]
right or if I say hi good afternoon my
[13:04]
name is Ryan I'm Oran State
[13:08]
Park you pass I can hear the noise
[13:10]
coming from down the
[13:13]
loop right the exact same thing in a
[13:16]
different way right and so yeah and so
[13:18]
that's I can think on that because I
[13:20]
have I've thought about it it's like how
[13:21]
do I explain this to Patrick that he's
[13:24]
right overe explaining and just well and
[13:29]
and just just so I mean from my
[13:31]
perspective as a manager like you're a
[13:32]
quick guy like I can say something to
[13:35]
you and you get it and you're quick
[13:38]
right not everybody is that not
[13:40]
everybody is like that right like
[13:42]
literally
[13:44]
sometimes like overc communicating right
[13:47]
is a form of making sure that somebody
[13:49]
understands so a good way to do that
[13:51]
what I've noticed sometimes is effective
[13:53]
as a communicator is to paraphrase back
[13:56]
to them what it is that you heard
[13:59]
okay and by doing that they say oh yep
[14:02]
they got it I don't need to say it again
[14:04]
right but if I just say I'm hearing this
[14:06]
I just saym they're like did they
[14:09]
understand that you know it can create
[14:11]
some mystery there and so that's what I
[14:13]
mean when I say we're good but I get
[14:14]
we're saying right and so yeah I think
[14:16]
that's your form of saying we're good I
[14:18]
got you like I told to tell what you
[14:20]
been saying and you don't need to
[14:21]
paraphrase back all you you know and
[14:23]
yeah and so but so I I totally
[14:27]
understand where you're com I get that I
[14:29]
am not your normal volunteer okay and
[14:32]
this is a hard thing to navigate um I'm
[14:35]
doing my best no and that's and that's
[14:36]
what that's all we could ask but in the
[14:39]
situation and like I said you know I
[14:42]
mean I've never truly had a problem with
[14:43]
Patrick like there's been no
[14:44]
confrontation with them you know it's
[14:46]
always been respectful well that's good
[14:49]
you know but just from my perspective as
[14:51]
a manager yeah just when I see like
[14:55]
emails or text messages in regards to
[14:57]
and that's another thing so I have been
[14:59]
a freelancer all of my life which means
[15:02]
I'm always emailing and this is a state
[15:04]
agency thing where um you guys treat it
[15:08]
differently than I do and I'm trying to
[15:10]
navigate I even try to talk to Logan
[15:12]
without sending emails right you know
[15:14]
I'm trying to adapt to you guys right um
[15:18]
well I wouldn't say is necessarily the
[15:20]
emails are the issue with that I
[15:23]
communication it's good to communicate
[15:24]
it's healthy to communicate and so like
[15:27]
do you really mean this I do so like to
[15:29]
be a healthy crew is that we have to be
[15:31]
able to communicate with each other
[15:33]
right and so like I think you know for
[15:36]
my understanding of when I was looking
[15:40]
through some corresponden and stuff that
[15:42]
J had sent is that like by Logan sharing
[15:45]
information with like the park manager
[15:48]
or Katie is that it led you to distrust
[15:51]
him no I know nothing about this I don't
[15:53]
know what you're saying so that is that
[15:55]
was very clearly in the emails in
[15:57]
regards nothing I've said yeah yeah okay
[16:00]
no I'm yeah what I have no idea what
[16:03]
you're talking about I truly don't fair
[16:04]
enough fair enough yeah okay so um I why
[16:07]
would I care if he shared something with
[16:09]
you I that's not not at all Ryan
[16:12]
seriously okay um go back and read it
[16:14]
cuz I don't know what you're talking
[16:15]
about but I I believe that word was used
[16:18]
in there in regards to Logan and being
[16:20]
able to to trust him no it's not in
[16:24]
there so yeah so just it's not in there
[16:27]
fair enough truly not and I think like
[16:29]
even you C you sent Logan an email and
[16:31]
then you cced Katie on it saying that I
[16:34]
know you're going to give this to Katie
[16:35]
anyway oh okay so I can explain that I
[16:37]
can explain that yeah yeah I can explain
[16:40]
that though so I learned from from
[16:42]
Frankie the vssl at a different part
[16:45]
that when you say something that's even
[16:47]
slightly negative and this was a very
[16:49]
direct response to Logan that it
[16:51]
automatically goes to the supervisor so
[16:53]
I knew you would receive a
[16:55]
copy that's it okay got you
[17:00]
fair enough but yeah so it just to so
[17:04]
for me how it came across for for me
[17:06]
okay is that um you know I knew I knew
[17:11]
that she would receive a copy and I
[17:13]
didn't want her to think that it was
[17:14]
something I was hiding so I sent it to
[17:16]
her directly that makes that makes sense
[17:17]
and though just my interpretation of
[17:20]
that whole thing was that like I know I
[17:22]
can't trust you with information Logan
[17:24]
so I'm going to give it to the people
[17:26]
that are going to show it
[17:27]
to that's how it
[17:29]
I'm sorry is not how it was meant at all
[17:32]
fair fair enough fair enough but that is
[17:34]
definitely how it came across so as a
[17:35]
manager I'm thinking oh man like I mean
[17:38]
like this is an issue like you know like
[17:41]
Sam doesn't feel that he can trust I
[17:43]
mean that's why I said I'm not
[17:45]
escalating I'm informing trying to
[17:47]
prevent that actually so I yeah so and
[17:52]
literally not escalating like well I
[17:55]
well I I know and and so that could be
[17:58]
tough is like sometimes when people say
[18:00]
hey I don't want to start well that's
[18:01]
why we're talking they say I don't want
[18:02]
to start a problem but you know then you
[18:05]
tell I am a very direct person I mean
[18:07]
what I say mean I wrong with him you
[18:09]
know sometimes that could be like I
[18:11]
think you don't want to start a problem
[18:12]
you know but then I'm very honest and
[18:14]
direct I mean what I say I truly do so
[18:18]
you do not have to be reading subtext
[18:20]
for me I mean what I say okay if it gets
[18:23]
misinterpreted that does happen because
[18:26]
um one thing I've learned is a lot of
[18:28]
people people they attach things to like
[18:30]
okay take the word difficult for example
[18:32]
is something I've learned this past year
[18:34]
when I use the word difficult I'm just
[18:35]
describing a situation that is a little
[18:38]
complicated but people attach emotions
[18:40]
to that I don't do that right that's um
[18:44]
I think that people probably do that
[18:45]
with all kinds of language that I don't
[18:48]
even know about like these are things
[18:49]
I'm just learning that people treat
[18:51]
language I treat it very very direct and
[18:53]
plain I mean what I say right no you're
[18:56]
you're right there are definitely
[18:59]
inferences or inflections on certain
[19:04]
words Us in certain ways I mean even
[19:06]
down to like if lettering is bolded in a
[19:09]
in a paragraph I mean like that
[19:11]
insinuates that like has like a a tone
[19:15]
like a negative tone could be perceived
[19:17]
as like a negative or threatening tone
[19:19]
like you know kind of like putting
[19:21]
exclamation points behind something like
[19:23]
put like 25 exclamation points so let's
[19:26]
get to the real issue here okay
[19:29]
uh I don't trust Logan he has not given
[19:32]
me any reason to trust him and I have
[19:34]
laid out why and because of that I do
[19:38]
not want him ruining my future I had to
[19:41]
do something about that right I had to
[19:43]
make sure that he could not ruin my
[19:45]
future right that is why we here right
[19:49]
well yeah and so I mean I would I
[19:52]
understand that maybe there are a lot of
[19:55]
reasons Ryan that you believe that Logan
[19:57]
is part of your future right no but no
[20:00]
but however he is capable of
[20:02]
interrupting my future while I'm here
[20:04]
and you are as well so you as a person
[20:07]
holds the highest responsibility of that
[20:10]
disruption not happening and that's why
[20:13]
we're here to talk with you it's not
[20:15]
about Logan at all like this about well
[20:17]
you started bringing up um Bolding
[20:20]
things and that's the only time I've
[20:21]
ever bolded something in an email so I
[20:23]
made an inference there and I'm just
[20:24]
explaining this is why that email was
[20:26]
sent because
[20:30]
I I was just trying to I was just trying
[20:33]
to have you understand that by doing
[20:36]
those there are inflections of words
[20:37]
because it sounded like before when we
[20:39]
were talking that you didn't understand
[20:41]
that there were inflections with words
[20:43]
but it sounds like you do understand is
[20:45]
what I just heard because you said you
[20:47]
wanted to make a point so you bolded
[20:48]
them I absolutely wanted to make a point
[20:50]
with that em all right so we're on the
[20:52]
same page with that so um so we do
[20:55]
understand that words you know can have
[20:57]
some yeah they can easily get
[20:59]
misinterpreted too though I mean that's
[21:01]
also what we're talking about so correct
[21:03]
yes they can go both ways on that right
[21:07]
know it certainly can and so that's why
[21:10]
we're here talking about stuff and set
[21:12]
the expectations moving forward right
[21:15]
so uh part of us as a crew um so one
[21:19]
thing I could ask for you directly is to
[21:23]
um only have conversations with Park
[21:25]
staff that don't result in things like
[21:27]
threats or demands over emails or texts
[21:31]
okay so that would be things like hey
[21:33]
I'm you know requesting that you help me
[21:35]
get a job and somewhere else or it be
[21:38]
like I am prepared to fight this or not
[21:41]
let you stand in my way so those things
[21:44]
come across as threats and they could
[21:48]
they can make people feel not good when
[21:51]
they're being threatened and it it makes
[21:53]
them not want to engage with somebody
[21:55]
else if they feel like they're being
[21:57]
threat right okay so so I would just ask
[22:00]
that moving forward m is that you know
[22:03]
you don't engage in that sort of um
[22:06]
verbage of either demanding or you know
[22:09]
threatening never made a demand gotcha
[22:12]
okay understood but from from so it
[22:15]
should be easy then moving absolutely
[22:17]
I've never made a demand to not do that
[22:19]
um and so the goals of our agency is to
[22:23]
you know to being like supportive of
[22:25]
each other and welcoming to everybody
[22:28]
here and we're we're this is why we're
[22:30]
having a conversation with you as well
[22:32]
is that we are really trying
[22:34]
to have you understand kind of what our
[22:38]
observations are and kind of what our
[22:40]
expectations are moving forward to to
[22:42]
make you be successful and so this isn't
[22:44]
like a Logan Thing versus whatever this
[22:46]
is a Sam thing and I'm the the park
[22:49]
manager I'm responsible for all the
[22:50]
employees that are here at the park all
[22:52]
the volunteers all the employees and all
[22:55]
the people that come from our park and
[22:56]
go to different parks and I've been in
[22:59]
the agency for 15 years now and I've
[23:01]
been in management for half of that and
[23:04]
I've seen a little bit of everything
[23:06]
from all the way from a Parker Ranger
[23:08]
assistant all the way through all the
[23:10]
disciplinary processes of a manager and
[23:13]
and all the HR stuff right
[23:17]
and what I have found to be the most
[23:19]
successful thing when somebody comes and
[23:22]
talks to
[23:23]
me is for me to say you know what I did
[23:25]
not see it that way I will do my best to
[23:29]
you know change these things moving
[23:31]
forward those people are the most
[23:33]
successful people in like in their
[23:36]
career and in their future I've had a
[23:37]
few his opportunities over my career
[23:40]
where somebody came and talked to me and
[23:42]
it felt like I was chewing on glass
[23:44]
right and all I had to do is keep
[23:46]
chewing that glass and swallow it right
[23:49]
but because of that providing that
[23:51]
feedback made me a better person it made
[23:53]
me stronger and it made me more
[23:55]
resilient and it made me have a better
[23:58]
understanding of what my role is and
[24:00]
what I'm doing and where I wanted to be
[24:03]
in the future right so the conversation
[24:05]
we're having is is no different than the
[24:07]
conversation that I have been through
[24:09]
multiple times in my life right and in
[24:12]
particularly even here at this career
[24:14]
right
[24:15]
so part of why we're talking about this
[24:17]
is we want to support the goals of the
[24:19]
agency and um and we'll get more into
[24:25]
you know the explanation and stuff like
[24:28]
that so so and at the park you know
[24:30]
we're very big on assuming positive
[24:32]
intent right and so it's it's a lot
[24:35]
easier said than done right so and this
[24:38]
this can be this can go both ways right
[24:41]
so the with us as a crew we want to see
[24:44]
positive intent for each other want to
[24:46]
assume positive intent for the public
[24:48]
right so like for example if a um I'll
[24:52]
tell a real world example there was a
[24:54]
camper camping in Sea and had a pretty
[25:00]
beat up Ford Ranger right it had a lot
[25:03]
of dents in it spray painted ra can it
[25:06]
had a lot of contents in the back of the
[25:09]
truck right so at first glance if
[25:12]
somebody was not assuming positive
[25:14]
intent they might think that these
[25:15]
people are up to nefarious activity or
[25:18]
they're doing something like they're
[25:20]
stealing stuff right so uh we actually
[25:23]
had a park coost obviously it's not you
[25:25]
so right this is years ago so we had a
[25:27]
park host
[25:29]
that made contact with them and
[25:31]
essentially accused them of stealing
[25:33]
stuff in the camp room with no prior
[25:35]
knowledge of knowing whether they had
[25:37]
paid or not okay well it turned out that
[25:41]
that camper was an actual paid camper
[25:45]
they came in they were moving across
[25:47]
country they didn't have a lot of
[25:49]
funding right so they had a lot of stuff
[25:51]
with them and it
[25:53]
was packed in maybe a a way that you
[25:56]
weren't assuming positive intent
[25:59]
that set you up for a bad uh interaction
[26:01]
with that person right so what do you
[26:04]
think happened when the park CL went up
[26:06]
to that person and said hey what are you
[26:08]
doing here it looks like you're stealing
[26:10]
stuff and they were a paid
[26:12]
camper I mean so you know made them
[26:16]
feel bad right terrible essentially so
[26:20]
if we were take that same situation and
[26:23]
you know assumed that they had
[26:25]
paid it sets us up for a better you know
[26:29]
interaction with them right so I always
[26:30]
say assume positive intent until proven
[26:32]
otherwise right so if Katie like has
[26:35]
something stuck in her eye and she goes
[26:37]
like that I'm not going to think oh God
[26:40]
Katie made a weird face at me she must
[26:42]
hate me right I'm going to assume until
[26:44]
proven otherwise the kitty had something
[26:46]
in her eyeball or if she's having a bad
[26:50]
day and she cusses cusses under breath
[26:52]
at me I might think damn Kitty might be
[26:54]
having a bad day right like I'm going to
[26:57]
assume that's not Katie like I'm going
[26:59]
to assume positive intent towards Katie
[27:02]
that she's doing the best she can with
[27:04]
what she got and in my role as a team
[27:06]
teammate that's my default position with
[27:08]
people in general okay that's
[27:11]
good M you know I want to you know make
[27:15]
sure that um you know I'm providing that
[27:19]
support for for her right and giving her
[27:21]
space and and and assuming that positive
[27:24]
intent right so a big thing we have here
[27:27]
at the crew is to is to assume positive
[27:30]
because it sets us up better for Success
[27:33]
having contact with I agree that's why I
[27:35]
said I don't think Patrick is you know
[27:36]
he's just being himself I understand
[27:39]
okay well that's good yeah so that's
[27:41]
good yeah so
[27:45]
okay so I guess um one other thing I
[27:48]
wanted to ask and this would be kind of
[27:51]
an expectation moving forward is that
[27:54]
you know that you take us at our word
[27:57]
right and so like I take you at your
[27:59]
word Ryan well that's good I'm I'm glad
[28:02]
but I do my
[28:04]
hope well I took Logan at his word also
[28:07]
right well and so I would say is like
[28:10]
moving forward like Logan Patrick Leaf
[28:13]
Nate Haley Katie Hannah like to be like
[28:16]
a a good operating crew we have to take
[28:20]
all all of each other I take everyone at
[28:22]
their work um I also hold them to their
[28:24]
work okay fair enough don't you
[28:29]
uh yeah I mean I understand sometimes
[28:33]
instances change so like for example it
[28:36]
it seems like maybe you're holding on to
[28:37]
this Logan Patrick Leaf training you
[28:40]
thing oh okay all right so if you're not
[28:42]
that's fine but U it just seems like
[28:44]
maybe that's what you're referring back
[28:45]
to and and if you like is you know that
[28:48]
could be all be pushed back on me that's
[28:49]
not a Logan thing I told Logan
[28:51]
absolutely not Patrick's doing the
[28:53]
training right so if okay if you do want
[28:55]
to be frustrated with anybody on that be
[28:57]
frustrated with me on that because it
[28:59]
did not seem like from the information I
[29:01]
had that we would not be avoiding
[29:05]
Patrick doing a trading because Patrick
[29:06]
needs to be able to do that training I
[29:08]
understand your point of view on this as
[29:09]
for like a volunteer needs to be able to
[29:11]
receive that course that and I went and
[29:13]
did that's great that's perfect um but I
[29:16]
would ask in the future that like we
[29:18]
don't have follow-up emails in regards
[29:20]
to that so um you know my
[29:24]
expectations from like emails and phone
[29:28]
messages and text is that they only be
[29:30]
professional and directly related to
[29:32]
work and if you have employee issues you
[29:35]
can bring those to me okay so I'm so in
[29:38]
this instance when there's okay I like
[29:40]
that when there's an employee issue I'm
[29:43]
more the appropriate person to come to
[29:45]
than Logan is so and and this might just
[29:47]
be like a misunderstanding from yes he's
[29:49]
my direct supervisor as a direct super
[29:52]
so but Logan has no supervisor Authority
[29:55]
whatsoever like he do not and the people
[29:58]
that do here at this park is Katie and
[30:01]
myself okay so we're the ones that give
[30:04]
performance evaluations okay we're the
[30:06]
ones that uh you know this is something
[30:09]
I didn't know sorry truly two staff
[30:11]
specif like more so specifically Yeah
[30:14]
well yeah I mean staff and volunteers
[30:16]
like yeah like so so if we do a dismiss
[30:18]
I got you okay so if we do dismissal
[30:21]
inste it's not Logan doing a dismissal
[30:24]
it's KD or myself okay right and so um
[30:28]
so yes he is he's like day-to-day
[30:29]
operations kind of like having
[30:31]
somebody be stationed at the park Booth
[30:34]
you know so like I did treat him like my
[30:36]
direct supervisor I assume that's what
[30:38]
he was Goa and that that that makes
[30:40]
sense that could be like an
[30:41]
misunderstanding and so yeah so Logan is
[30:44]
not any any vssl is like they're like
[30:47]
day-to-day operations like do the
[30:49]
scheduling and they get people put in
[30:52]
the slots right um but they don't
[30:56]
actually like supervis supervise you
[30:59]
know I kind of treated you two as fairly
[31:01]
off limits gotcha um gotta Yeah well
[31:05]
yeah I mean day-to-day stuff I mean we
[31:07]
hope that any Ranger can address any
[31:10]
well I'm just I'm just letting you see
[31:13]
how I saw the
[31:14]
higher yeah and our hope is that like at
[31:17]
any time and this is my perspective like
[31:19]
from a ranger point of view
[31:21]
like like my expectations of Rangers is
[31:24]
that they help volunteers anytime they
[31:26]
need help you know like and they're
[31:29]
available there for help so I mean
[31:31]
selfishly I got so many hours of the day
[31:34]
right so my hope is that the Ranger will
[31:37]
you know hey I need whatever toil paper
[31:39]
hey I need cleaning supplies hey I need
[31:41]
Mop Heads right that's what those
[31:42]
rangers are there for that day-to-day
[31:44]
support operations clarifying stuff and
[31:47]
if you know and if they can't then
[31:49]
obviously then Katie and I can help with
[31:52]
that as well right but but ultimately
[31:54]
you know at the end of the day is like
[31:55]
Katy and I for staff and volunteers of
[31:58]
the park we are like the supervisor and
[32:02]
so okay everything that happens at the
[32:03]
park I got to respond to all the
[32:06]
complaint letters that come out of stuff
[32:07]
I got to respond to all the good all the
[32:10]
good letters that come to the park as
[32:12]
well right and and all do the budget
[32:14]
stuff and do all the HR stuff and you
[32:17]
know run projects and so we're kind of
[32:20]
do all the stuff Rangers do plus you
[32:23]
know a bunch of other admin stuff okay
[32:25]
this is very new to me I truly didn't
[32:27]
know kind of
[32:28]
scenes whatever so so that sounds that
[32:33]
sounds good um and so you know so I
[32:36]
would ask that you know you take us at
[32:38]
our word right and so um and some of
[32:41]
that assuming positive intent goes along
[32:43]
with that is that like and yes I said
[32:47]
you know maybe you got
[32:49]
some stuff that led you to distrust
[32:52]
Logan a little bit right but like I said
[32:54]
I would asked that let that stuff go and
[32:57]
if you wanted to blame I'm not holding
[32:58]
anything on like that's how I work so
[33:00]
good good so um so part of saw him
[33:06]
yesterday and it was very cordial
[33:10]
professional good and my hope is that
[33:12]
you you know as a volunteer or staff
[33:14]
member to have a good functioning
[33:16]
working crew you know we we cannot avoid
[33:20]
C you know certain people that are on a
[33:22]
crew like if I understand I was not
[33:25]
trying to avoid Patrick all the time I
[33:27]
just thought that that particular
[33:28]
circumstance could have been served
[33:30]
better okay I mean and I understand that
[33:32]
you have a different position on that I
[33:34]
was just trying to navigate a situation
[33:36]
I thought could have been different
[33:38]
right and I was told that it would be so
[33:42]
you know he told
[33:44]
me yeah fair enough um but like that
[33:48]
would be like an expectation moving
[33:49]
forward is that like you know any Ranger
[33:52]
any volunteer you know we got we got to
[33:54]
be able to yeah work in a I'm not saying
[33:58]
it but and I would actually you know I
[34:00]
don't promote people to be friends
[34:02]
outside of work you know but while at
[34:04]
work you know have a work like
[34:05]
professional interactions with each
[34:07]
other you know like we're cordial we say
[34:09]
hi we wave goodbye say good to see you
[34:13]
you know like respect mutually respect I
[34:16]
have been professional to everybody
[34:18]
every single time so so some of the
[34:20]
things that we're talking about yeah if
[34:21]
you're already doing them it should be
[34:23]
really easy well I just I'm still want
[34:26]
to clarify yeah I want to be clear there
[34:29]
is never I don't I cannot think of a
[34:30]
single interaction that was negative
[34:32]
with the rang there that's okay that's
[34:35]
good um I know we talked at the
[34:38]
beginning of the month a little bit
[34:39]
about the red book and the walking
[34:40]
Center about putting work rated things
[34:43]
in their only and so I just wanted to
[34:45]
make sure that you're that you
[34:48]
understand where I was getting at with
[34:49]
that um and so you that would be like um
[34:53]
notes or poems or drawings you know like
[34:57]
things that we put in there would be
[34:58]
things like hey Rangers I need uh tissue
[35:02]
paper at the Welcome Center or I have a
[35:05]
problem with the change find or I didn't
[35:07]
think I'd ever have to touch it again
[35:08]
I'm not in the welome well you probably
[35:10]
won't um but there might be a time when
[35:12]
you're out in the Y there's an issue
[35:13]
with a y or something like that um or
[35:15]
any that sort of stuff so just just I
[35:18]
know I talked to b in a month and so my
[35:20]
hope is that if I were to go back into
[35:21]
the welcome center right now and look
[35:23]
back through the pages that there would
[35:25]
only be work related things in that red
[35:27]
book is is that the case I would say
[35:30]
that
[35:31]
um I mean we talked about not doing
[35:34]
Doodles and I stopped doing Doodles okay
[35:36]
I do leave little messages like telling
[35:38]
people to have a good day and things
[35:39]
like that okay gotcha okay I tried to
[35:42]
make it a you know welcoming yeah no
[35:44]
fair enough and I think in our
[35:46]
conversation I uh explained you know it
[35:48]
could be like a court like taking a
[35:50]
court like a legal document and we'd
[35:52]
only want things that were like directly
[35:53]
pertaining to you know things happening
[35:56]
at the park right and so I could see how
[35:58]
that could be interpreted as like have a
[35:59]
nice day but I would just say please
[36:01]
don't put that in a red book any long so
[36:04]
um now I thought i' made that clear in
[36:07]
our conversation and I must not have but
[36:09]
I think you understand now what that red
[36:11]
book is for and what the expectation
[36:14]
would be moving forward okay sounds good
[36:17]
all right um we talk about this a little
[36:20]
bit so um you know I have become aware
[36:24]
of some nonwork rated emails and texting
[36:26]
to par staff at our park as well as
[36:29]
other Parks okay so I would ask that
[36:33]
that you only send work related things
[36:36]
to like Logan or any of the other
[36:38]
rangers so for example I think You' send
[36:40]
a poem to him for him to review and so
[36:44]
that would be kind of an inappropriate
[36:46]
thing to do um so Logan and I've
[36:50]
directed Logan on this and so if there's
[36:52]
an issue with how he is to people you
[36:55]
know it's strongly encouraged that like
[36:57]
we don't have relationship like
[36:59]
unprofessional relationship outside of
[37:01]
work especially if we're in like a like
[37:04]
a supervisor type role right and so in
[37:06]
that case Logan is uh you it's a poem
[37:09]
about my love for the ocean oversight
[37:12]
you know yeah and and I'm I'm not I'm
[37:14]
not uh grading your poem or anything
[37:17]
like that but what I would ask is that
[37:20]
you know like that would be an example
[37:21]
of something that is not work related
[37:24]
and so if something like that comes to
[37:26]
somebody
[37:28]
like with maybe no context too it can be
[37:31]
received in a way of like I don't quite
[37:35]
understand why that was sent to me you
[37:37]
know and so you want me to explain it um
[37:40]
no I don't I don't necessarily need
[37:42]
explanation for that um but you know I
[37:46]
would just ask that you know I think
[37:47]
like I think you're just trying to share
[37:50]
and provide
[37:51]
information but you know can I explain
[37:54]
it yeah if you want to yeah so
[37:58]
I really love my time in the Welcome
[38:00]
Center yeah and I want to find other
[38:03]
volunteer opportunities where I can do
[38:04]
that I'm going to do that at Beverly
[38:06]
Beach but there's some other parks that
[38:07]
have welcome centers I'm trying to get
[38:09]
into MH but I haven't heard from their
[38:11]
vsls I asked Logan if you would help me
[38:14]
if you would contact them I just wanted
[38:16]
him to
[38:18]
know
[38:19]
uh how much it means to me to be on the
[38:22]
coast that poem is about what brought me
[38:24]
here
[38:25]
like what it
[38:29]
yeah that's that's good and yeah and so
[38:32]
maybe cuz see it wasn't a demand like
[38:34]
you were saying earlier I was a request
[38:36]
and I wanted him to understand how
[38:37]
important it was to me what I'm trying
[38:40]
to do that's all yeah and and just so
[38:42]
you know typically so in like Logan's
[38:44]
role is like he doesn't he doesn't do
[38:47]
that stuff and that's that solely up to
[38:50]
you you know I understand
[38:53]
I he he's the volunteer coordinator and
[38:57]
I just
[38:59]
okay I I hear what you're saying I know
[39:02]
other volunteer coordinators who are
[39:03]
willing to help me gotch okay I good and
[39:05]
I was just asking Logan to help to okay
[39:08]
understood yeah yeah yeah and just and
[39:11]
just so you know in Logan's perspective
[39:13]
right and my perspective too is like
[39:15]
it's not really up to Logan to do that
[39:17]
right and so I agree it's why your
[39:19]
request the uh the biggest thing that
[39:22]
somebody can do to like get future jobs
[39:25]
is to do a kickass job they're currently
[39:28]
at that's that's the best way to go
[39:29]
about it um because if you do that it
[39:32]
makes a lot easier for people to say
[39:35]
yeah hey you already trained on the
[39:35]
Welcome Center come on over you know or
[39:37]
you already trained on your cining come
[39:39]
on over right so um so that's I mean you
[39:41]
don't think that's inappropriate do you
[39:43]
because I have other volunteer
[39:44]
coordinators who yeah so I want to say
[39:48]
it's inappropriate it's related to work
[39:50]
right um but I was just trying to
[39:52]
explain to you like
[39:55]
um in you know in your asking for in
[39:58]
case he knows the other volunteer
[39:59]
coordinators and he can put a word in
[40:01]
for me right right and I know that like
[40:05]
you have said before in our conversation
[40:06]
that sometimes you know you you write
[40:08]
words you know a little bit different
[40:12]
you know differently or you know when
[40:13]
you present them you know those words
[40:15]
are a little more direct and you know
[40:18]
like a you know like a request is
[40:20]
different than like an ask you know like
[40:23]
so if I use the word like hey I'm
[40:25]
requesting that you put in a good word
[40:28]
for me you're it's the saying the same
[40:30]
thing but using different words and like
[40:32]
what we talked about earlier is that I
[40:33]
mean I can it sounds like what you're
[40:35]
saying is maybe it was interpreted
[40:37]
differently than how okay that's what it
[40:39]
sounds like to me okay but you know like
[40:41]
you said I think we have established
[40:43]
that you understand that words do have
[40:44]
some of course some meaning to them um
[40:47]
that maybe I'm not even aware of right
[40:50]
yeah fair enough fair enough so um but
[40:54]
back to the uh the work related emails
[40:58]
text stuffff like that right so just
[41:00]
please keep it understand about what
[41:02]
we're talking about at the at the park
[41:04]
here right and so we talked about the
[41:07]
good reviews and getting so talk about
[41:09]
that one um emails texts make them work
[41:13]
related
[41:15]
um and you know I mean so to just so you
[41:21]
know right is like when when you have
[41:26]
interactions with
[41:28]
um staff members you know and then
[41:32]
they're maybe mixed in with you know non
[41:36]
like work rated stuff and it's followed
[41:39]
up with like an email
[41:43]
um like it can be received
[41:47]
um like I'll say maybe negatively like
[41:50]
almost to the point where like I'm
[41:52]
trying to F you here maybe somebody
[41:53]
would want to avoid interacting with you
[41:56]
you know because they okay putting some
[41:58]
meaning behind what those emails mean um
[42:02]
and so you know it just I'm this is not
[42:05]
necessarily like a a bullet point that
[42:07]
I'm trying to like say you shall do this
[42:10]
it's something that it's kind of that
[42:12]
eating glass a little bit and so I'm
[42:13]
trying to provide a little bit of
[42:15]
feedback for you of like I think you
[42:18]
don't want to actually say what you're
[42:19]
about to right of how that could come
[42:20]
across M you know I'm not sure what what
[42:24]
you mean I don't know I think we're
[42:26]
about to find out though oh gotcha uh
[42:29]
not I'm not following you but okay um
[42:33]
yeah so it just you know I just wanted
[42:36]
to to like let you know that it can like
[42:39]
make people feel uneasy I don't know
[42:41]
what you're talking about so yeah I'm
[42:43]
trying to explain it in a
[42:45]
[Music]
[42:46]
way that would make sense
[42:51]
um well it's kind of like like sending a
[42:54]
PO somebody a poem without context right
[42:57]
it had
[42:58]
context well yeah I mean hey look at
[43:00]
this poem it had context yeah but when
[43:04]
if somebody's coming at it from like a
[43:05]
professional workplace like lens it
[43:08]
could it could be interpreted
[43:10]
differently and then a follow-up email
[43:12]
could be sent that's saying like you
[43:15]
know I don't trust you or I'm
[43:18]
dissatisfied with you or whatever be
[43:21]
just from observation it seems at one
[43:23]
point in time since you've been here in
[43:25]
a month you've had issues with every
[43:27]
every one of us besides Nate and Haley
[43:29]
because haly's been gone for the whole
[43:31]
month of for the whole month pretty much
[43:34]
at one time or another you've had an
[43:36]
issue with any one of us right and and
[43:40]
now I understand your perspective that
[43:44]
that you know that's something that you
[43:45]
feel I'm you know really not following
[43:48]
you but I'm listening okay so it seems
[43:51]
like you have based upon the emails and
[43:53]
the text messages that you have given to
[43:56]
park staff it comes across as you have
[43:58]
an issue with like who I can't even
[44:01]
think of any other Rangers that I
[44:02]
interact with well so I believe I mean
[44:06]
if want get out of the nuts and bolts of
[44:07]
it so when Kitty responded with you to a
[44:10]
text message and you said that you felt
[44:11]
that kitty was rude to you that was that
[44:14]
was way in the beginning and we put that
[44:17]
to us right and it hasn't gotten any
[44:18]
better since the beginning it's been
[44:20]
consistent throughout the month and so
[44:22]
it's like every other week There's an
[44:25]
instance of this you know and like I
[44:27]
said I'm just trying to provide you
[44:29]
feedback at this time of my
[44:31]
observation as a park manager you said
[44:34]
all the Rangers and you're bringing up
[44:37]
what happened with Katie in the very
[44:38]
beginning right and I'm just not
[44:40]
tracking what you're saying here no well
[44:42]
you want to specific examples of what I
[44:44]
was talking about I was just trying to
[44:45]
provide those right so the first one was
[44:47]
Katie the second one was me I came down
[44:48]
to talk to you just to talk to you get
[44:50]
to know you and understand you which
[44:52]
well you can understand why that that
[44:54]
situ why are we going back to this
[44:55]
because well I'm sorry I I just I
[44:57]
thought you wanted some examples of what
[44:59]
I was talking about so I was just trying
[45:00]
to provide those and so we don't have to
[45:02]
revisit them if if you understand what I
[45:04]
was what I'm talking about and we don't
[45:06]
have to revisit those at all okay so so
[45:10]
it sounds like we're good with moving on
[45:11]
then from I had those in definitely put
[45:14]
that behind me so okay very good awesome
[45:16]
that's good that's good so um you know
[45:20]
and so you know we are I mean I put it
[45:22]
so far behind me I applied for a job
[45:24]
here well I mean that's good like yeah
[45:28]
well right and and so to continue that
[45:30]
forward you know it's like kitty and
[45:32]
Logan were down at the wiom center
[45:34]
working on the fence yeah and kitty
[45:36]
asked you what your plans were for this
[45:38]
just a miscommunication well right
[45:40]
nothing bad happened what I'm saying is
[45:41]
that there's been a consistent
[45:43]
miscommunication since you've got here
[45:45]
the first of the month okay well and so
[45:47]
it turned into that then Katie what you
[45:50]
essentially is what my understanding of
[45:53]
what you're saying with Katie is that
[45:55]
you know Katie purposely asked you what
[45:57]
your plans were because she knew that
[45:59]
you applied for the job and that is
[46:01]
absolutely false that is that is the
[46:03]
most false thing I've ever heard ever
[46:06]
okay but it's not what I said so well
[46:09]
that is how it came across and what and
[46:13]
your emails and your texts and your
[46:14]
responses back and forth to no I've
[46:16]
never said anything like that it's not
[46:18]
in any email or text Ling it's not okay
[46:21]
well I'm I'm letting you know that's how
[46:22]
it was received so from where what are
[46:25]
you talking about so
[46:29]
well Kitty could talk about it probably
[46:31]
well from from the emails because I
[46:33]
think after after that I think you had
[46:36]
sent was it me and Logan letting us know
[46:39]
that you had res sended your application
[46:42]
and so I interpreted that that you know
[46:44]
something that I said to you in that
[46:47]
interaction you decided to send your
[46:53]
application because I asked you maybe
[46:55]
what you were doing for the summer
[46:57]
I mean Katie I didn't um I
[47:03]
didn't didn't provide a reason in that
[47:05]
email first of all
[47:08]
and um I never made it an issue with you
[47:12]
okay
[47:13]
right yeah I mean I you know I was just
[47:17]
well yeah so but this is so these are
[47:19]
examples of but I never made it an issue
[47:22]
so I this is this what you're saying to
[47:24]
me right now is
[47:27]
I was this is news to me so okay that's
[47:29]
yeah and that's why I'm trying to
[47:30]
provide feedback okay to you is when you
[47:34]
when you send these emails and stuff and
[47:36]
as we established earlier you understand
[47:38]
that sometimes words have meaning behind
[47:41]
them is that they're interpreted a
[47:42]
certain way by us but that's mean
[47:45]
exactly that's meaning that other people
[47:47]
are assigning to things that are not
[47:50]
there though right and you're making me
[47:53]
responsible for other people's thoughts
[47:56]
basically well would it be fair to say
[47:58]
and this is a question for you would it
[48:00]
be fair to say that sometimes the way
[48:02]
that you're feeling is exactly the same
[48:04]
way is how we're
[48:06]
feeling I mean that is so vague I don't
[48:08]
know how to respond to that well in
[48:10]
other words putting meaning behind words
[48:13]
you know or
[48:14]
correspondence I I I think sure all H
[48:17]
probably I mean you know I hear what
[48:20]
you're saying there so yeah and so so
[48:23]
empathy right seeing through the eye of
[48:25]
the other right and so if if you can
[48:29]
understand how you feel in those
[48:32]
situations I I my My Hope Is that you
[48:34]
could understand how that could make I
[48:36]
mean a I never situation completely let
[48:40]
that go or truly
[48:42]
did I don't I yeah I like you I don't
[48:45]
it's didn't yeah and that's what like I
[48:48]
said this is not a bullet point this is
[48:49]
something I'm trying to like provide
[48:52]
feedback to you because and this is
[48:54]
where Communication in my opinion is
[48:57]
it's sometimes hard and sometimes it
[48:59]
doesn't feel good but sometimes we got
[49:01]
to do it because if Sam doesn't know and
[49:04]
I don't let him know about it he can't
[49:06]
be aware of it and you know try to make
[49:08]
a change for it vice versa with me if
[49:10]
I'm not aware of it I can't make a
[49:12]
change you know it's kind of thing oh
[49:14]
that thing was you know it's kind of
[49:15]
like that sliver under the skin or
[49:16]
whatever if you don't if you don't like
[49:19]
massage it a little bit you know or
[49:20]
squeeze it the sliver will never come
[49:22]
out it'll just stay in there and you
[49:24]
know hurt and you know get more Sor of
[49:26]
over time or whatever and so but I never
[49:28]
said what you're saying so you're making
[49:31]
me responsible for something I did not
[49:33]
do well what I'm trying to get across is
[49:36]
that sometimes what there's other
[49:39]
meaning to the words that we say and
[49:41]
they're interpreted by other people as
[49:44]
yeah it maybe not what what was intended
[49:46]
and so in this case it sounds like
[49:48]
that's not what you're intending and I
[49:50]
would just let you know that's how it
[49:51]
was interpreted okay and so I would I
[49:54]
would also okay um argue that that same
[49:58]
Theory could be applied to other
[50:00]
interactions that you had with Park
[50:02]
Rangers in the time you've been here I
[50:05]
mean what you're saying is applicable to
[50:08]
everybody all the time so right which
[50:10]
which as a crew that's where we come
[50:12]
back to positive intent so it's
[50:16]
something that well what you just said
[50:17]
to me is that somebody didn't take what
[50:19]
I did as positive so I mean we can flip
[50:23]
this around Ryan yeah I I I I I hear
[50:26]
that but okay it's positive andt until
[50:28]
proven otherwise right and so um but I'm
[50:32]
not getting that benefit of the out yeah
[50:35]
well yeah I don't you know I see where
[50:38]
you're coming from um and I may not be
[50:41]
able to help you with that um but all I
[50:43]
can do is provide feedback of how how
[50:46]
it's feeling from our our perspective
[50:49]
and I will say if you don't mind going
[50:51]
back to you know that first of the month
[50:54]
the the text message thing that I was
[50:56]
blind decided that you interpreted it
[50:59]
the way that you did because like right
[51:03]
I had I I agree and I apologize to you
[51:07]
thank you but um like I felt like there
[51:09]
was no positive intent from your side in
[51:13]
that message that I sent um because you
[51:16]
know I got multiple messages from staff
[51:18]
you know that you were communicating
[51:20]
with him I think you know Leaf called me
[51:23]
and I had a conversation with him and I
[51:25]
know that you know leaf and talked to
[51:26]
anyone that day I don't know what you're
[51:27]
talking about either or maybe it was the
[51:29]
following day but you know and I know
[51:32]
you know and I didn't say anything about
[51:33]
you I'd never said anything about you
[51:35]
okay well you know leavea talk to me and
[51:37]
and let me know that you know he he
[51:39]
talked to you and reassured you that you
[51:41]
oh okay I do remember this okay yeah
[51:43]
that was in the welcom center that was
[51:45]
days later I think um I know what you're
[51:47]
talking about and so you know he on my
[51:49]
behalf you know really tried to tell you
[51:51]
that you know there was positive intent
[51:53]
you know behind that you know I didn't
[51:55]
mean anything by way really thought we
[51:57]
put this to rest I we we did we did I'm
[52:00]
just trying to tell you I'm just trying
[52:01]
to explain to you like how be me like
[52:04]
really feeling blindsided by how you I
[52:07]
mean I apologize again I truly really
[52:10]
put this for rest you know I well right
[52:13]
and so and so some of
[52:15]
the you said that maybe it felt like we
[52:17]
wenum positive tent in that scenario
[52:19]
right so you know 6:00 in the morning I
[52:22]
didn't want to be texting you you know
[52:25]
it just was a bad situation you know
[52:27]
just it just yeah it I mean it seems
[52:30]
like from my perspective right so I say
[52:32]
assum positive intent until proven
[52:33]
otherwise so the we started out the
[52:36]
first of the month being proven
[52:37]
otherwise and so when somebody says it's
[52:40]
over I just put a stick in it it's all
[52:42]
it's all good it's behind me right it's
[52:45]
really hard to be like is it really
[52:47]
because similar things are happening in
[52:51]
regards to that exact same thing over
[52:54]
and over again every other week with
[52:55]
somebody else right and so it can be
[52:58]
interpreted as that okay but I'm going
[53:00]
to need examples because I'm I've tried
[53:02]
to provide those have you yeah quite a
[53:05]
few of them and I got lots of emails and
[53:07]
text messages I'm trying to relay how
[53:09]
that could come across um the until
[53:12]
proven otherwise thing that was the very
[53:14]
first interaction we had with Katie so
[53:16]
yes it was so you can't just be like
[53:19]
well it's all over I learned from then
[53:21]
I'm going to I learned from
[53:23]
it yeah I mean maybe I I mean did okay
[53:27]
well assume postive intent with me
[53:28]
please because I truly well like I said
[53:31]
we we're trying right and then once
[53:35]
until proven otherwise and it's it's
[53:37]
hard
[53:38]
to then say well it's always sunny you
[53:41]
know it's like it's hard to put to rest
[53:44]
I I liked Katie so much I applied for a
[53:46]
job here like I
[53:48]
literally right I don't right yeah and I
[53:52]
thought it was great that you apply for
[53:53]
a job and yeah okay thank you and I
[53:58]
I just don't see the issue I guess okay
[54:00]
and that's and that's all I'm I'm trying
[54:01]
to do is just I'm trying to explain of
[54:04]
how
[54:05]
it how some of these things may come
[54:08]
across and I think it relates back to
[54:11]
probably the initial I feel like that
[54:14]
just caus a spiral that never stops
[54:16]
right right and you know we agreed to do
[54:18]
a reset right and and but the just
[54:23]
providing feedback to you is that like I
[54:25]
thought we had to reset then similar
[54:27]
issues were arising you know and so it
[54:30]
seemed like I'm asking you about them
[54:32]
well and yeah I I've tried to provide
[54:36]
examples you know throughout the
[54:37]
conversation that we've had and like you
[54:40]
said you didn't want to revisit those
[54:41]
and so I don't really want to revisit
[54:43]
each one of those instances you know but
[54:47]
um my goal through the conversation is
[54:49]
to talk to you and let you know what's
[54:51]
my perspective on it and you know what
[54:54]
my expectations as a park manager is
[54:56]
moving forward oh you won't have to
[54:57]
worry about emails from me I understand
[55:00]
that that's the big issue
[55:02]
here well yeah and so it's you know the
[55:05]
nonwork related emails and texts that's
[55:08]
that's one of them being able to work
[55:09]
with all the staff um never had a poor
[55:13]
interaction with any Ranger here that's
[55:14]
good that's good that's good um you know
[55:17]
and supporting the you know the
[55:19]
the the the agency goals as well as the
[55:22]
crew goals and it's very polite the
[55:25]
guests like me the volunteers like me um
[55:30]
every interaction I've had with the
[55:31]
ranger has been positive minus the text
[55:33]
message with you KD that I can think of
[55:35]
I cannot think of a situation where um
[55:38]
you know I think we're good I definitely
[55:40]
support the goals of the park system
[55:43]
good and then the think the other bullet
[55:46]
point was that you know tickets at award
[55:48]
so um and that that would be all of us
[55:51]
that Logan include and all that right so
[55:54]
all the Rangers you got to take us for
[55:55]
our wood always have okay well that
[55:57]
sounds good well it sounded like earlier
[55:59]
that maybe you would do everybody but
[56:01]
Logan but so I'm glad we're on the same
[56:03]
page with that now
[56:05]
so no well well good so just so you know
[56:09]
um you know I appreciate you talking
[56:12]
with us and being open to the
[56:13]
conversation sometimes these
[56:15]
conversations they they not they suck
[56:17]
right and but here's the deal is that I
[56:20]
figure unless I talk to it I just want
[56:22]
to be treated fairly unless I talk to it
[56:24]
you have no way of knowing of any of the
[56:27]
stuff that I'm talking about I can't
[56:29]
assume that you know any of this right
[56:31]
and so um that's really why I want to
[56:34]
talk with you because it gives you it
[56:35]
gives you an opportunity to say okay we
[56:38]
had a conversation I understand I may
[56:41]
not fully agree with everything Ryan
[56:43]
said right and that's that's totally
[56:45]
okay you know like that's that's
[56:48]
sometimes between uh supervisor and an
[56:51]
employee there's disagreements on you
[56:53]
know where things align and stuff like
[56:55]
that right and all I could do is try to
[56:59]
articulate my observations and where I'm
[57:01]
at and what my perspective is and you
[57:04]
know kind of what the Ryan I think you
[57:06]
know that I'm trying to
[57:09]
um I am here with the best intent yeah
[57:13]
and I'm here to do a very good job and
[57:17]
I'm not here to cause problems for you
[57:18]
guys that's not why I'm here good you
[57:21]
know that's that's good and so you know
[57:24]
just you know support support members of
[57:26]
the crew support each other and you know
[57:29]
I think keep up the like like I said if
[57:31]
there's specific employee related
[57:33]
matters please yeah absolutely please
[57:35]
come to me about it you know it's not
[57:37]
really Logan's thing you know and if you
[57:41]
if you're willing I I'd be willing to
[57:43]
like talk through some stuff you know if
[57:44]
if that's something you know if you do
[57:47]
have an issue that we could talk through
[57:49]
and very open to discussions with having
[57:52]
open conversation about it you know yes
[57:54]
um and so that that good right and so
[57:57]
like you said I sincerely am open to
[57:59]
that it's all good me as well right and
[58:01]
so like I do like I I want to see your
[58:05]
email changed my opinion okay it was a
[58:07]
big deal to me I it really was you know
[58:11]
I want to see you be successful too like
[58:12]
I said you like the parks you want to be
[58:14]
involved in the Parks right and the you
[58:18]
know the
[58:19]
best a big role that I play in general
[58:22]
at work is helping people be successful
[58:25]
and whatever is that they want to do
[58:27]
whether that be a ranger that wants to
[58:28]
be a director whether that be a park
[58:30]
host that wants to be a park ranger
[58:33]
assistant someday whatever that might be
[58:35]
obviously within reason you know I can't
[58:38]
like uh you know doctor paperwork or
[58:41]
anything like that but you know I can
[58:43]
give people skills and hopefully provide
[58:46]
perspective that helps steer them in the
[58:49]
direction that they would like to go so
[58:51]
like with Rangers it's providing
[58:53]
additional training competencies getting
[58:55]
them involved in you know Regional or
[58:57]
OPD program and with Park host I mean so
[59:01]
I just I'm going to say
[59:03]
this I genuinely wanted to have a future
[59:06]
here at Honeyman but I don't think
[59:08]
that's possible anymore and I just want
[59:09]
to get my time over with yeah I wish
[59:12]
that things had been different I do but
[59:16]
they're not so you know I love what
[59:20]
you're saying yeah and I wish that was a
[59:22]
future that we had right right um I'm
[59:26]
just going to do my job this month and
[59:27]
move on well and so I mean so I would
[59:31]
say too is that like you don't have to
[59:34]
feel obligated to stay like in other
[59:37]
words if if you in if you are in a place
[59:42]
where it doesn't feel right for you I
[59:45]
would never expect you or want you to
[59:49]
stay in a situation like that I
[59:52]
understand you know for you like as like
[59:55]
a person right and I life is too short
[59:59]
MH to do things you know if if if
[60:04]
because my whole goal
[60:07]
of the I really don't see us having an
[60:10]
issue month March is going to just you
[60:13]
know it's going to be fine okay my goal
[60:16]
with the crew and volunteers that
[60:17]
everybody wakes up in the morning looks
[60:19]
forward to going to work and interacting
[60:21]
with each other and enjoying the stuff
[60:23]
they're doing but if like at any time
[60:27]
like don't feel obligated like like if
[60:30]
there's some kind of an issue I will
[60:31]
come talk to you okay but like yeah so
[60:34]
like and but don't feel that you are
[60:37]
required or obligated to stay in any way
[60:40]
like if you're feeling a certain way I
[60:43]
understand I appreciate though feelings
[60:45]
you know because sometimes that doesn't
[60:48]
I've had I've had jobs didn't work out
[60:50]
you know and that's just part of life
[60:52]
sometimes right sometimes that it
[60:53]
happens and um so you know also I enjoy
[60:56]
what I'm doing you know that too that's
[60:58]
like it's not you know don't feel
[61:01]
obligated anyway like we can I don't
[61:04]
feel obligated I'm here by
[61:07]
choice all right uh any clarification or
[61:10]
anything we talked about no I appreciate
[61:13]
the discussion okay well I appreciate
[61:15]
you talking with us and meeting with us
[61:16]
and I really do appreciate the hopping
[61:18]
into doing yts and learning another role
[61:20]
and you know and so I think that's good
[61:23]
it's actually not as bad as I thought it
[61:24]
would be that's good for you tugman
[61:26]
didn't you yeah that's good for you yeah
[61:28]
that's good yeah you know each place a
[61:31]
littleit different each Ys a little you
[61:33]
know you kind of get a rhythm and stuff
[61:35]
like that but it is important work that
[61:37]
you're doing you know because when
[61:40]
people show up for their yts yeah you
[61:42]
know they're dirty you know like we I
[61:46]
think of it feel that you know if not I
[61:48]
think of it
[61:50]
where these campsites have I mean they
[61:53]
have generations of memories to so I
[61:56]
think about stuff like that MH yeah yeah
[61:59]
you know it is
[62:03]
important all right well um thank you
[62:07]
Ryan yeah hey thank you appreciate
